Fostering Inclusion in Bitcoin with Saidah Gomez-Fleury

Dawdu: Saidah, welcome to the Bitcoin source. Can we start things off by introducing yourself?

Saidah: Hi Dawdu. Thank you so much for having me on the Bitcoin Source. My name is Saidah Gomez-Fluery. I’m from Scarborough, Ontario, Canada, and currently reside in Geneva, Switzerland.

Dawdu: Nice. I’m super excited to have you on today. The first question that I wanna start off, and I usually ask everybody that comes on the Bitcoin source, this is where did you source your Bitcoin knowledge? What inspired you? Whether it be books, conferences, or even people in the space that kind of helped you along your Bitcoin journey?

Saidah: Um, well my Bitcoin, I would say that my Bitcoin journey started when I was a kid and like unbeknownst to him, my father was like my, I guess, primary influence cause he was very much into gold and he was very much into telling me to pay attention to what’s going on on a micro, on a macro level, Sorry. 

Saidah: So he kind of planted the seed and then many, many, many years later, um, I first heard about blockchain, actually I think I was at business school and also my father used to listen to the Kaiser report with. Max Kaiser and Stacy Herbert. And he got me into listening to it to get a different perspective. 

Saidah: Cause I was very sort of, um, I, I was immersed in sort of the private sector, you know, so he’d be like, Saidah kind of like, remember who you are kind of thing. So he got me listening to that and like I, I learned so much from listening to Max and Stacy. And then after that, here in, uh, Switzerland, there’s the Silicon Valley Association and uh, they do annual conferences.

Saidah: And I attended one, I think it was in 2018. And I wasn’t expecting to see so many alt coins, which was beneficial in the sense that I could see how these companies were pitching. I could see the value they were trying to bring to the market. And it helped me differentiate between Bitcoin and all coins, decentralization versus, um, organizations that are trying to create a business in one way or another. 

Saidah: And I made one really great contact in, in particular, her name is Ashley. She splits her time between Geneva or Switzerland and Taiwan. Uh, she’s an Asian woman and she’s so smart. She’s very spiritual.

Saidah: Um, well my Bitcoin, I would say that my Bitcoin journey started when I was a kid and like unbeknownst to him, my father was like my, I guess, primary influence cause he was very much into gold and he was very much into telling me to pay attention to what’s going on on a micro, on a macro level, Sorry.

Saidah: So he kind of planted the seed and then many, many, many years later, um, I first heard about blockchain, actually think I was at business school and also my father used to listen to the Kaiser report with Max Kaiser and Stacy Herbert. And he got me into listening to it to get a different perspective. Cause I was very sort of, um, I, I was immersed in sort of the private sector, you know, so he’d be like, Saidah kind of like, remember who you are kind of thing.

Saidah: So he got me listening to that and like I, I learned so much from listening to Max and Stacy. And then after that, here in, uh, Switzerland, there’s the Silicon Valley Association and uh, they do annual conferences. And I attended one, I think it was in 2018. And I wasn’t expecting to see so many alt coins, which was beneficial in the sense that I could see how these companies were pitching.

Saidah: I could see the value they were trying to bring to the market. And it helped me differentiate between Bitcoin ▪ and all coins, decentralization versus, um, organizations that are trying to create a business in one way or another. And I made one really great contact in, in particular, her name is Ashley. She splits her time between Geneva or Switzerland and Taiwan. Uh, she’s an Asian woman and she’s so smart. She’s very spiritual.

Saidah: Like, she’s like been a very good contact for me because, um, she started her Bitcoin journey before I did and she helped me with so many things and gave me information and stuff. And then after that, I mean like, this is like a never ending answer for me. I mean, um, I listen to Safe’s podcast frequently, uh, the Bitcoin standard.

Saidah: Uh, I read the Bitcoin standard, the Fiat standard, um, uh, the Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth, 21 Lessons by Gigi. I have, uh, mastering Bitcoin by Andreas Antonopoulos. Can’t say that I’ve read the whole thing and I’m like, I’m like sound on a technical level, not at all. But it’s a great reference book and it helps me to learn as I go along.

Saidah: Uh, what else? I listen to the what Bitcoin did podcast from time to time. Of course, all of my colleagues at Satoshi’s Journal, um, because we’re so diverse and spread out, listening to everyone’s experiences and stuff, help me tremendously as well to understand things from multiple perspectives. Um, they’re just like, like there’s so many sources.

Saidah: You know, I go to GitHub from time to time to try to follow what’s happening. Um, I subscribe to newsletters. I love, um, is it Tales From the Crypt or I think they changed the name of the podcast. Matt Odell. He like, um, his tutorial from many years ago on how to set up your cold card really helped me. I shared that with my husband.

Saidah: Like there’s so many influences, so diverse. Um, in the francophone Bitcoin space, there are a few people I follow on Twitter, uh, like se I think his last name is Boost but he’s a Bitcoin minor. There’s another guy called Lock, There’s left Bitcoin, which I started following as well.

 Saidah: So I’m like, I’m I’m all over the place.

Dawdu: Yeah. And it’s so fascinating to kind of see how different people and how they learn Bitcoin, right? So it’s like, I’m actually pretty excited cause I’m a bookworm and you just labeled off so many different books that are so important to the ecosystem. 

Dawdu: And you know, it’s kind of like one of those things in Bitcoin where the journey just doesn’t stop once you’re orange peeled or once you understand the protocol, you have to continue to kind of sharpen the blade and really learn more about the, the ecosystem of what Bitcoin is and how it’s not only gonna benefit you, but benefit society as a whole.

Saidah: Most definitely. And I mean like, there’s the ecosystem around Bitcoin and then there’s Bitcoin itself with so many disciplines that take, I mean for me, because I don’t have gives me a technical background, it takes some time to understand, you know, like lately I’ve decided to learn more about Bitcoin mining. 

Saidah:So the company’s involved their incentive structure, what mining actually is. Um, I think it was OK, Keen who said, uh, Bitcoin miners should not be called miners. They should be called like security consultants or something, or because they do secure the pro protocol. 

Saidah: How do they do that? What happens when the block reward is minimized? Like they’re just so many avenues to go down. I wish I had more time to really indulge myself in each topic.

Dawdu: Yeah, most definitely. In say, you know, your background is so unique and different and you’ve had a, you know, a wide range of experience doing different things, traveling all over the world.

Dawdu: And my second question for you is, you know, I’m aware that you’ve pitched for startup companies in Silicon Valley, so how has raising capital differed for Bitcoin only companies?

Saidah: So it was, um, part of my business school. It was one startup in Silicon Valley, and then we also traveled to China to see, um, how startups are created there and to sort of compare and contrast models. And we went to India as well to see what, um, how business is is carried out there. 

Saidah: And so from I guess more of a Western perspective, and I’m by no means an expert, okay? So like take what I say with a grain of salt, but with respect to Bitcoin only companies, I would say that one of the key differences would be considering what your te is your total addressable market.

Saidah: Um, so a Bitcoin only company is a company, right? And so what people are looking for is, uh, who, who’s your customer? What’s your market size? What like fundamental problem are you trying to solve? Um, do you have like just a basic prototype, an MVP that you can get out there like, you know, leave your laptops in the office, get out there and ▪ actually see how people interact with your product. 

Saidah: Um, what are the pain points that you identify? Like all of these sort of fundamental, uh, startup things need to be covered. But I would say that ▪ ▪ for a Bitcoin only company, a potential vulnerability is your market size ▪ because ▪ everyone and their mom knows about crypto.

Saidah: So if you are a company providing whatever service that involves Bitcoin plus a bunch of Altcoins, chances are you have um, like, I guess a, a greater ability to reach a bigger market.

Saidah: Whereas if you’re Bitcoin only, I think for companies in the startup phase, it’s important to incorporate sort of like a Bitcoin educational, uh, segment to your service offering. So your customer understands why you offer Bitcoin and Bitcoin only or a Bitcoin related service.

Saidah: And if you don’t have that capability ▪ within your small team, cause startups are usually really small, it would be really great to partner with an organization like Satoshi’s Journal, Shameless Plug to help you with the educational piece and to also help you advertise your services and maybe even get people to test the product that you’re Developing.

Dawdu: Well, I think that, you know, your skill set, your educational background and just your insight on kind of how to navigate startups, how to pitch for companies, and how to just do that. Consulting is very, very important for, you know, the total ecosystem when you look at it, you know, this industry is really driven by males, it’s driven by, people in this space that kind of have more of a technical background. 

Dawdu: And I think that, you know, Satoshi’s Journal and some of these other startup companies are gonna kind of be a conduit or a Kickstarter to see like, hey, women in this space have insights, just saying, hey, like ▪ this is, this is what we’re bringing to the ecosystem. 

Dawdu: And I think that once you become more successful in your journey of like pushing out capital, pushing out people to actually believe in Bitcoin, you’re gonna kind of see like this, this wave of people rushing in to kind of like try to do the same thing. So I’m super excited to have you a part of the team and, and I always look forward to your insight.

Saidah: You know, what you say is, um, is pertinent ▪ in so many ways with respect to like women specifically mm-hmm. like in 2017 I volunteered for a project called the Passats Skills Project in South Africa in Limpopo Province. 

Saidah: And what the project does is that it takes women who are in ▪complicated ▪ domestic situations and it provides skills training, so like designing, sewing, et cetera. And it provides like, um, what I like to call a secure base. So a group where the women can work together, they can learn together, uh, it’s Christian based, so they pray together, they sing together while they work.

Saidah: Like it’s, for me, it was an absolutely outstanding experience. And, uh, they produce really cute pouches and purses and stuff, and they sell them locally, uh, to some of the schools. Like they also do school uniforms or they will go to markets and sell.

Saidah: And when I consider bitcoin as a solution for a micro project like that, which eliminates obviously third parties, it eliminates banking fees. The potential for women to have their own little sort of, uh, micro circular economy is, is great. I mean, a year after I did that, I got married and I decided to buy some of their purses and stuff to give to people as gifts In, in my wedding. And I had to pay banking fees from Switzerland to South Africa.

Saidah: And I thought to myself, like, these fees, I mean either I retain that value, that monetary value, or I say, you know what? I save X on these fees, let me pass it forward to these women because I’m not just purchasing like the purses that they make. I’m also purchasing the experience that they, that that, that they shared with me.

Saidah: I’m purchasing the fact that they allowed me into their their homes, You know, they allowed me in to see for myself. And, and so with respect to Bitcoin, especially developments on the lightning, lightning network, there’s so many possibilities. And because capital is no longer centralized, it can be distributed in various ways.

Dawdu: Yeah. And you know, I love that you brought that up because those fees are essentially just middle man fees. Mm-hmm. And what people have to realize about Bitcoin is like, you kind of put yourself out there. You went to these places, you experience these things, you know, the Switzerland Bank didn’t experience them, but somehow some way they still get a cut from ▪ your peer-to-peer transactions with, you know, organizations that you are passionate about. 

Dawdu: And I think that that’s why Bitcoiners, you know, kind of buy into this digital asset because they want to have true peer-to-peer transaction where if I like something that you’re producing a product or service and I send you a hundred euros or whatever the price may be, I want you to get that full amount. I don’t want a middle man to kind of take a piece for me to just pass something along to you.

Saidah:Yep, exactly. Exactly. Like, I want to reward you for the value that you’re bringing to me that you dow you, you’re bringing to me. So you should get This.

Dawdu: Exactly. And that leads to my next question, which was, you know, you’re talking about, you know, helping women in Africa. Uh, my next question is, do you believe Bitcoin will help or hurt disenfranchise people in the community More?

Saidah: I think Bitcoin will help everyone. Um, if, and this is the second part, if they choose to adopt the tool. So what does that mean? It means different things for different people. And it depends on your context, it depends on the time, the extra time you have available to read and to learn and to connect with people. 

Saidah: But fundamentally, I’m very optimistic and I think that the moment any person chooses to go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole to understand why people who are into Bitcoin are just like, you know, Bitcoin only and why we keep speaking even though, you know, like the CEO of Bitcoin is not paying us as, as marketers. I think once people understand that, then you know, Bitcoin will definitely help them.

Dawdu: Yeah. And you know, I’ve done a lot of traveling, we know as well you’ve done a lot of traveling. Yeah. And you know, it’s something interesting about traveling, right? When you’re kind of in a microcosm of your own neighborhood or your own community, you can kind of be blindfolded to, you know, worldly affairs or like what’s going on with people outside of your, your comfort zone, right? Yep. And you know, how has traveling to multiple countries taught you about inclusion, monetary policy and bitcoin?

Saidah: Wow, that’s a big one. Uh, so right off the bat I would say that everyone’s greedy. Everyone is kind. We all have a mixture of all of these qualities. And depending on maybe the position of power we have, you know, I think that’s when our kindness is tested or the the extent to which we’re greedy is, is tested. 

Saidah: So as humans, irrespective of where we live, we all possess these qualities. And I think that, uh, the circumstances we find ourselves in sort of point to how we express those qualities or which of those qualities are most expressed as opposed to others. 

Saidah: But, um, in terms of traveling, I think that one thing, so one theory that I have, um, I haven’t proven this, is that in general the closest a person is to the money printer, the more privilege that person has. Maybe it sounds like it’s very obvious. 

Saidah: So on a global perspective, because the US dollar is the world reserved currency, Americans or friends of Americans who are closest to the money printer have the most amount of privilege. And then when you go to other countries, you see a similar pattern, but it’s just not on the same level as with the US dollar.

Dawdu: Yeah. And I kind of want to expound on ▪ when you said people are greedy. So I know that like you natively come from Canada and have you seen like a difference in the way Canadians approach money versus people in Switzerland or in Europe?

Saidah: Um, you know what I would say that Switzerland is, so I haven’t visited every single country on the, in like in the world, but from the countries I have visited, Switzerland has got to be one of the most ▪ ▪ low ▪ time ▪ preference countries. 

Saidah: Um, I’ve been living here since 2008, and when I arrived I was like, why is everything so expensive? Where are like billboards and ▪ whatever telling me like what to buy, what’s cool, whatever. Why, why do things move so slowly, you know? 

Saidah: And um, it’s actually in reading the Bitcoin standard that I learned that Switzerland was one of the last countries, um, at least in the west to come off of the gold standard. And I would say that the population is relatively old compared to some other regions. So maybe even though Switzer, the Swiss Franc is no longer on the gold standard, there’s still a culture of low time preference, even though that’s changing. Like I’ve seen changes since 2008 when I arrived. 

Saidah: So I would say for Switzerland it’s definitely low time preference. Um, and also even, I’m not gonna get into politics too much, but even with respect to voting and stuff, I don’t hear that much about political parties. ▪ It’s not like polarized right or left. 

Saidah: It’s really like, um, we vote on referendums on specific topics ▪ ▪ all the time. And it’s never like this party, like you get like, um, uh, like, um, a package in the mail with a summary of all the topics, and then you see what each party is saying. You know, they list all the parties, you see what the like, uh, concierge had or whatever, um, recommends. 

Saidah: And then you do your own research and then you cast your ballot. Whether the full process is like as fair and as wonderful as I would like to believe, I don’t know.

Saidah: But, um, I would say that’s Switzerland is, is uh, is pretty decentralized in low time preference, uh, in Toronto, in Canada, Like as a Canadian, as soon as you’re born, you know, that down south is the United States of America. So like, you know, there’s this, um, maybe a desire to be, how do I say this, to not be as influenced by the us but most Canadians are very much aware of, of the American influence.

Saidah: Um, yeah. And then in other countries I’ve visited, like some countries have seen their currencies totally, um, devalued, you know, So yeah, I would say like what has shocked me the most is really Switzerland, doesn’t it, as an outlier.

Dawdu: Yeah. It sounds like, you know, Switzerland kind of allows you to have like informed decisions, like even with their voting system from what you just kind of explained. 

Dawdu: And you know, I think that, you know, we might not see like a Bitcoin billboard in Switzerland, but I’m assuming because you live there, there’s probably tons of Bitcoiners that actually live in the country and understand the low time preface just from culturally being in the country and growing up around that type of society. 

Dawdu: So I’m glad to hear your insight on that. That was very interesting and different. Yeah.

Saidah: And a culture of gold as well. Uh, in Switzerland there’s um, you, you have like on the street car, on the tram, you’ll have like adverts, like crypto companies will pay for the space and you’ll see like the capability to buy Bitcoin or other all coins if you choose. 

Saidah: There’s, uh, in Geneva, there’s um, like a shopping center called M A ▪ N O R. And I was Ford because I have like Bitcoin ATMs, you know, sometimes I go with my daughter if she gets like, um, cash from her grandparents or something, we go to the Bitcoin ATM together and you know, like she gets her little paper wallet and stuff. 

Saidah: It is, um, in general the country is very friendly with respect to, legislation for Bitcoin companies and crypto companies.

Dawdu: Yeah, That’s dope. I love to hear that, you know, ▪ and sight. And my my last question kind of builds into the regards of like, you know, you talking about your daughter, I have a daughter as well. And where do you see Bitcoin changing the gender wage gap in the future?

Saidah: That is another big question, Um, in the future. So I would have to break it down into sort of, into sort of like a time horizon in the short to median term. I don’t see any difference whatsoever, but I would guess that in the longer term, because once again, capital is not easy to come across because Bitcoin has an, an inelastic supply. 

Saidah: People have to think long and hard before spending their money, before ▪ participating in, um, financing activities or investment activities. ▪ And the result of that, I believe is that, you know, if I have a project that I’m running, I am not going to rely on shortcuts. 

Saidah: I’m not gonna say, Okay, this person looks this way, has this profile, therefore they are qualified. Uh, which is something I think that many western countries have done for a very long time. I think that every individual will be forced to dig a bit deeper and find out what kind of value a candidate or a partner brings to your project. 

Saidah: Uh, so that person could be, you know, like you could be Joe in Arkansas, like white guy Joe in Arkansas, or you could be like Saidah in Switzerland, a black woman living in a different region. 

Saidah: And if we, if neither one of us is capable of delivering value to a company or to a business, then we just won’t be hired simply because, or we won’t be paid simply because, you know, our performance really counts because I think that on a Bitcoin standard, it is about delivering value as opposed to, you know, expanding your business operations because you have access to cheap capital.

Dawdu: Yeah. And also influence too, right? Like a lot of people use influences leverage to get a higher wage or a better position at a job. 

Dawdu: And I think that women have it harder because just of the social constructs of society. And like you said, I think that Bitcoin is gonna kind of dissolve some of those issues that we’re seeing with, you know, people just, you know, catcalling or saying like, Oh, women can’t do that job because of whatever reason. And you know, that’s why I brought up that ▪ question because, you know, as I’m raising my daughter into maturation, I’m gonna have these conversations with her down the road at some point as well. 

Dawdu: And you know, my hopes is, is that Bitcoin and some of the blockchain technology can kind of level the playing field for women in the space to kind of like ▪ get paid what they’re worth and, you know, get paid for their talents and their highlights.

Saidah: Yeah. And to be entrepreneurs as well. I mean, for me, like, I mean my daughter, she’s free to choose whatever she wants, but mommy will have a guiding, a gentle guiding hand and encourage her to experiment with different businesses, you know, as, as, as she’s growing up. And I definitely want my ▪ daughter to learn how to code. 

Saidah: I speak to my daughter about Bitcoin already. She knows how to pronounce the word. You know, um, when we were in El Salvador in April, um, we had the, like, good fortune of visiting Hope House with Roman Martinez and, uh, and their programs and stuff. 

Saidah: There were lots of girls, lots of boys participating. They were surfing. Uh, they did, uh, like, uh, prayer ceremony. They did garbage pickup and stuff, and they were so welcoming. And my daughter just like, you know, she’s small, but she still made a few friends and stuff. And ▪ like I thought, how cool would it be if one day, um, my daughter partners with a little girl or a little boy. Um, that’s, you know, is very, I guess good at surfing and surf lessons and stuff. 

Saidah: Uh, here in Switzerland we’ve got the Swiss Alps, the French Alps aren’t so far away. There’s a lot of skiing, snowboarding, like a bunch of winter sports. How cool would it be if they could start their own business where it’s like, uh, you know, some sort of dual tourist package delivered, uh, over, I don’t know, layer two or layer three solutions by then and they get their payment in Bitcoin. 

Saidah: Like how cool would that be f that’s the case we’re no longer discussing, um, the wage gap. We’re, we’re talking about entrepreneurs who partner with other people because they deliver value or they have access to resources that someone in like New York doesn’t have, for example.

Dawdu: Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. And you know, that’s gonna be the changing of the tide. That’s what the future’s gonna look like, hopefully. And I’m glad that you had that foresight to kind of instill that in your ▪ daughter now. That’s dope.

Saidah: I Love it. Yeah, we, um, I don’t know when, but we should like organize a little, um, I don’t know, like a FaceTime or something with our two daughters so that they could just see each other. I don’t let my daughter watch YouTube, um, or anything because um, those algorithms are not kid friendly in my personal opinion. But, uh, she does, uh, with my friends and family in Canada or in Trinidad or in New York, she does get to see them. So we could definitely do that.

Dawdu:Yeah, most definitely. Um, so I added this, this Bitcoin conversation has been great. I really enjoyed it. Can you give the audience, can you give the world your social media contact and also any future projects that you have, um, in store?

Saidah: Yes. So you can, the best place to follow me is on Twitter at Saidah Gomez. That’s s a i d a h g o m e z said, or Z for Americans Um, and then you can follow me on Instagram at Foster inclusion. I don’t post there that frequently. I also have a foster inclusion Twitter account and a YouTube channel, and I kind of come out with, uh, videos every month or so. 

Saidah: And in terms of future projects, I’m putting together a few pitch packages specifically for, uh, I guess more traditional companies to incorporate Bitcoin initiatives and their inclusion strategies or their CSR community social, uh, responsibility strategies.

Dawdu: Nice. Once again, Sai to thank you for taking time out to be on the Bitcoin source. Have a good one.

Saidah: Thank you so much, Dawdu